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Offline BaguetteOuiOUi

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High visibility jacket
« on: March 14, 2019, 07:34:11 PM »
Hello forum,

I've been looking for new shoes and a new helmet.
I know that kickstarter has often cool new projects for us, motorcyclists. I found some nice shoes and  a lot of stupidly expensive helmets but I also found this jacket :



Raylier is proud to introduce its innovative jacket equiped with a luminous system which allows to improve bikers' visibility. Thanks to a better visibility, we ensure driving in safer conditions.

Basically it's a leather jacket with 12 LEDs that are supposed to make you more visible by road other users.
It also embed accelerometers that will make the LED responsive to braking.

For once, a new geeky stuff has not a sci-fi design which makes it unwearable unless you go at a comic-con.

I asked them a few questions mostly about rain and if It's warm enough to be worn on winter.
They said that they just travelled from Lyon to Paris (500km/310 miles) under heavy rain and the jacket was just fine and that they have spend the winter with it without freezing to death. I suppose it means that the jacket will be too warm for summer.

What do you think about it guys ? I am really considering buying one, I mostly ride by night in the winter (early in the morning, late in the evening) in the heavy, unruly traffic of Paris and I think this could be a really valuable addition to my equipment.

The jacket is made by a french company (pure coincidence, I swear), website is poorly translated in english for now : https://www.raylier.com/copie-de-accueil
Price is around 630


Offline TallyRex

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 07:50:05 PM »
I think it is too expensive for what it is. While watching the video, when the bike is going towards the camera, I see the headlight dominating the picture.  Many jackets are available with luminescent "stripes" that glow when light hits them.  Also, I noticed that the riders are dressed in pure black.  But hey, it's your money

Offline Scott in NH

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 08:42:00 PM »
I ran across the video while surfing YouTube

I exited after just a few seconds - way too "TRON" for me (but hey it might look good on you)

And who knows how well it will protect you if you do go down (I try to stay with name brands)

Add a modulating brake light and maybe convert the turn signals to running lights if you like.....

Offline John

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 11:24:37 PM »
First decision, do you really want to increase your visibility to other road uses (both night and day)?

If the answer is yes, then straight away a brown jacket and a similar dark colored helmet should be immediately excluded from consideration.  Might as well buy an army surplus camouflage jacket and sew a couple tiny reflective strips on it, be about as effective as that jacket.   

There are no shortage of cool looking bright fluro helmets on the market, and high quality leather jackets with major panels of bright color.  It just takes a bit of effort to find them.  There is no need to look like a construction worker to significantly increase your visibility to other road uses.   

These guys are way more 'cool' than some weekend hack who wants to look like Darth Vador in my book  .....



P.S.  Only get leather if you decide on a jacket with a decent amount of color.  It will hold its color unlike textiles which quickly fade, and is easily cleaned. 

And don't overlook gloves (some cool 'race' ones with white knuckles).  They add significantly to the front on 'triangle' of color visible to head on traffic.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 11:33:26 PM by John »

Offline peter88

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 11:43:27 PM »
I rode a postie bike for 7 years and wore all the hi vis in the world, it didn"t make an ounce of difference, drivers would look directly at me at a roundabout or intersection then drive straight at me. The only way to be safe on a motorcycle is to keep improving your skills & learn to predict what every other road user is going to do, which is usually before they know what they are doing.  When I think of all the times a car has taken right of way from me on the postie bike (I could always see it coming) it makes me think that having a flag hanging off the bike while wearing all the hi vis gear, somehow makes them fix their gaze on you, but it doesn't seem to register in their tiny brain that you are a human being.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 11:52:30 PM by peter88 »

Offline HPFM

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 11:55:58 PM »
 :0461:   Yea did the whole Fluoro Green and riding my Orange BMW.  doesn't make a lick of difference .  must be the new seats that they put in the newer cars,  you know the ones where you can drive while still having your head up your a** .    We gotta use "The Force" when we ride.

Offline John

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 12:00:07 AM »
Just a further thought ....

If you are interested in this subject (which I assume is the case as your considering that jacket), there is actually a mountain of proper research around that is worth reading.  If you just listen to internet forums you would think that getting hit up the clacker is a significant and common risk e.g. flashing LED lights on the jacket to address this problem.

If you read the research you'd actually find its quite a small risk.  WAY more motorcycles run into the back of cars, than cars into the back of motorcycles.  And the key thing is that about 100 times more risk is having your 'right-of-way violated'.  Tech speak for someone turning across or pulling out in front of you, because they "didn't see you" as you approach.  It's mostly about what's going on in front of you, and what you can do about that.  So ask the question, how much difference is a couple small led's on the front of an all brown jacket going to make?

Do the finding of these studies seem to align with my experience about where the risks really are,  yes.

Offline John

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2019, 12:14:52 AM »
*Originally Posted by peter88 [+]
I rode a postie bike for 7 years and wore all the hi vis in the world, it didn"t make an ounce of difference, drivers would look directly at me at a roundabout or intersection then drive straight at me. The only way to be safe on a motorcycle is to keep improving your skills & learn to predict what every other road user is going to do, which is usually before they know what they are doing.  When I think of all the times a car has taken right of way from me on the postie bike (I could always see it coming) it makes me think that having a flag hanging off the bike while wearing all the hi vis gear, somehow makes them fix their gaze on you, but it doesn't seem to register in their tiny brain that you are a human being.

Right on queue as expected. 

The argument that all other thing being equal, a rider wearing bright gear on a tall brightly colored full faring bike is no more likely to be seen than someone riding a matte black bike, in all matte black gear, riding a bike so low their arse is just about dragging the ground is so stupid I'm not even going to enter into it.

P.S.  It's a pity the results of Australia Posts study of accident rates after they switched from dark uniforms and bikes to bright is no longer available on their website.  It reported an 80% decrease in accidents for their motorcycle riders with the change to their uniforms and bikes.  I just happen to live near a major distribution center and you can see em coming up the road miles off.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 12:21:00 AM by John »

Offline John

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 12:18:49 AM »
*Originally Posted by HPFM [+]
:0461:   Yea did the whole Fluoro Green and riding my Orange BMW.  doesn't make a lick of difference .  must be the new seats that they put in the newer cars,  you know the ones where you can drive while still having your head up your a** .    We gotta use "The Force" when we ride.

You rely on 'the force', I'll rely on EVERY tool I have at my disposal, even if it only makes 1% difference.  I would never buy a black helmet for that very reason.

P.S. 50 years of road riding, every day of the week (we ride 365 days a year where I live), mostly in heavy peak hour traffic in MAJOR cities.  In all that time only one small 'off' at walking speed about 6 months after I got my licence at the age of 17 when I locked the front wheel on some loose gravel on the side of the road.   Think I'll stick to what has worked pretty well for the past 50 years. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 12:33:35 AM by John »

Offline peter88

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Re: High visibility jacket
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2019, 01:37:14 AM »
*Originally Posted by John [+]
Right on queue as expected. 

The argument that all other thing being equal, a rider wearing bright gear on a tall brightly colored full faring bike is no more likely to be seen than someone riding a matte black bike, in all matte black gear, riding a bike so low their arse is just about dragging the ground is so stupid I'm not even going to enter into it.

P.S.  It's a pity the results of Australia Posts study of accident rates after they switched from dark uniforms and bikes to bright is no longer available on their website.  It reported an 80% decrease in accidents for their motorcycle riders with the change to their uniforms and bikes.  I just happen to live near a major distribution center and you can see em coming up the road miles off.
    I have been riding for nearly 50 years also & ridden in a black jacket & blue jeans all my life, or, black leathers & sometimes moccasins and shorts (god no) and i am still alive.  I don't care what the stats are, i am saying that it didn't make an ounce of difference in my daily routine with drivers that just didn't see me no matter what i was wearing.
I think people have become so accustomed to seeing Hi Vis everywhere, eg:  tradesmen, posties, telstra workers, etc, etc, etc, etc, that it just doesn't register anymore.

You can argue all the stats in the world but it didn't make any difference when i was wearing it.
I didn't feel any safer, or for that matter, any more threatened, it made absolutely no difference to me.

 I remember sitting at the front of a line of cars at a set of lights on my old Bonny with my wife on the back, I was in the left lane at the front, another car in the right lane beside me, as we took off at the green light the car to my right just drove into our lane and pushed me & my wife off the road. I won't state here what i did to his car after that incident, the point is, some drivers just don't like or care about motorcyclists & no fluro jacket is going to help you in that situation.

If others feel that wearing Hi Vis helps keep them safe then that is ok with me & safe riding to all of you, but, not you or anyone else will convince me i was any safer while wearing it, because i experienced the complete opposite, day in day out, so as i said, stats don't mean a thing to me.

Also, a little less sarcasm would be appreciated mate, just because you have an opinion which may not agree with someone, doesn't mean you have to talk down to people..
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 02:01:44 AM by peter88 »